Under Epstein's guidance, Boston went 839-619 (.575) in the regular season and 34-23 in the playoffs. Ben Cherington is the new guy and I'm sure he will do fine as he's probably the same thing as Theo except without the Brookline roots.
Again we have no idea what we are going to get because Bud Selig is a scumbag, but don't expect anything awesome.
I like what the Cubs have done though with their upper management by making Theo the Head of Baseball Operations and Padres GM Jed Hoyer their GM. I think they will definitely change the way the Cubs approach the offseason.
The Red Sox are rumored to bring John Farrell back, which I don't know why Toronto would do that, but that's whats rumored.
Last night a Chicago based source (CSN Chicago) said there has been significant progress made on the Theo to Cubs talks. There are no reports on exactly what that means, but it seems as if there could be a deal announced before the end of the World Series (most likely during an off day).
As DP pointed out before the Red Sox are going hard after a pitching prospect named McNutt. He just got lit up his last night out, and you have to wonder if maybe the Cubs caved due to his latest struggle. We can't be sure about that, but it is interesting.
I just want this done, so the Red Sox can start to move on. Boston is not going to be able to move on at all from all this beer and chicken crap until they have something else to report. Trading Theo is step 1, hiring a new manager is step 2, trading Lackey is step 3 (more on that later), and reworking the rest of the roster is step 4. All of that hinges on the Red Sox being able to move on from Theo, and today it sounds like we are very close to doing that.
***UPDATE***
"The Red Sox and Cubs are "finalizing" the deal, according to Bruce Levine of ESPNChicago.com. They're expected to announce the deal tomorrow. It which would not include Brett Jackson, Trey McNutt, Matt Szczur or cash. MLB has told the Cubs they can have a news conference tomorrow, a World Series travel day, according to Levine (MLBTRADERUMORS)."
I wonder what the hell the Sox are going to get out of this deal then. Guess we will kind out tomorrow.
The Cubs immediately shot down that idea, but at least they are trying. Matt Garza would have been great for our rotation, and even though I'm not a Garza guy, but he certainly be an upgrade to almost everyone in our rotation. Garza last year was 10-10 with 197 Ks and is under team control for 2013.
I don't know really whats going on with Theo, the last I heard they were saying they said no to Garza, they said no to top prospect Brett Jackson and they are arguing over top pitching prospect Trey McNutt. McNutt is good and has top of the rotation stuff, but it can be very hit or miss with prospects.
We probably won't hear anything until the World Series is over, but this is certainly getting frustrating for the fans.
Theo may not be gone just yet as Sox and Cubs hit snag in negotiations. Apparently day 1 of talking to the Cubs for compensation didn't go well. I love what the Sox are doing here, I hope if they don't get everything that they want, they tell Theo fuck you, you aren't going anywhere and staying with the Sox. It doesn't really make a lick of difference figuring the guy who is replacing him Ben Cherington is internal, so it doesn't make a difference if he takes over this year or next.
Anywho since we aren't getting my wet dream Starlin Castro, I looked in Baseball America Prospect Handbook who their top prospects were and who we should demand. First is Brett Jackson, he is an OF prospect that could take over our RF problem and is a 20 hr -20 SB threat. K's a lot but whatever.
2nd is Trey McNutt..... I should just end it with the name, because it's gold. Imagine all the street vendors selling "These McNutts" T-Shirts. Amazing. He is a RHP with front end potential, hard thrower and Ks a lot of people.
3rd is Matt Szczur another OF prospect. Could have went to the NFL and didn't, fast guy.
I want all 3 of those guys and will hold out and be a dick unless I get them. There is also talk that Theo wants some people to go with him. Henry should just tell Theo no and make this process as difficult as possible.
According to sources the talks on compensation start today. DP wants Castro, I want Lackey gone, but neither of us are going to get anything close to what we want. What we have heard over and over again is that it will most likely be some minor leaguers and/or cash. Unless it's enough cash to buyout Lackey (which it won't be) then this whole thing blows.
Actually fuck the Red Sox right now. Since they are running everyone out of town, why don't they trade us something we could actually use in this city. Deal us Patrick Kane for Theo, or how about Julius Peppers? Yea, I like that better. Cross sports trading, yea that's what we should focus on.
Reports are streaming across the internet that the Cubs have signed Theo Epstein to a 5 year deal worth $15 million. The rumor is that they'll name Epstein President. The Red Sox are likely to get prospects as compensation, as Epstein is still under contract through 2012.
Ummmmm, wow. I don't know who to be angry at right now. Is Theo jumping from a sinking ship, or does he feel like his welcome has run out in Boston? Is this him leaving on his own, or are the owners holding the door open for him?
He's certainly not secure in his job here in Boston. He has only one year remaining on his contract, and his bosses have been talking to the media about how one cannot be the Red Sox' GM forever. Which is never something one enjoys hearing their boss say.
This team is in dire straits. It needs pitching. Badly. It could use a decent outfielder too. A bench would help. And this team needs character. Theo is partly responsible for how badly this team has performed. His big-ticket acquisitions have often disappointed (Drew, Crawford, Matsuzaka, Lugo, Renteria, Crisp, Gagne, Clement). But he has helped revamp and restructure the farm system to make it productive (Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Lester, Papelbon, Bard). He's also been good at finding undervalued talent that contributes surprisingly well (Ortiz, Mueller, Millar, Bellhorn, Loretta, Aceves, Cabrera). And not all of his big moves have been busts (Schilling, Foulke, Gonzalez).
So even though he's one of the reasons the Sox are where they are, I think he's the best guy to help the Sox improve. But now he seems to be gone.
And if he is leaving on his own accord, then I hate him. He's like the rich guy (Bruce Ismay) from Titanic who encouraged the Captain to go faster, then after the ship hit the iceberg, cowardly jumped into a lifeboat.
But I get the feeling like the owners haven't done enough to keep Epstein here. We haven't heard that they've offered an extension. They don't seem to mind that he's talking to the Cubs. And we're already seeing stories about how great Ben Cherington is.
Cherington is responsible for developing talent through the farm system, so he's obviously done well for himself. But the solutions to the current Sox mess won't come from Pawtucket. There are overpaid, overfed, overdrunk starters. The bullpen has two reliable arms, maybe three. Theo's successor will be walking into a storm of difficulties that need to be resolved ASAP. Meanwhile the owners might not be too keen on dishing out more money to fix the problems caused by high-priced free agents. Especially after spending $95 million buying players for Liverpool this summer.
Maybe this will all work out in the end. But the way I see it, the Sox have bad pitching, detestable players, and they've lost the first manager and GM to win them World Series since the end of World War I. Right now, it sucks to be a Red Sox fan.
Theo Epstein, the general manager of the Boston Red Sox for two championship teams in the last eight seasons, could be on his way to the Chicago Cubs in the next day or two if the Red Sox and Chicago can conclude negotiations, according to two sources. ESPN
I don't want Theo gone unless Starlin Castro comes back from the Cubs, it's hard to get a great GM and Theo is just that. So if we are to lose Theo we need something that would really improve our team. Castro is 21, is a shortstop, was an all star last year and is only going to get better. With Scutaro getting older, Lowrie injured every day and Jose Inglesis unable to hit, he would be a perfect long term option. I would send Inglesis with him if that's what needed to get it done as well.
Even though we all hate Lackey and I would love to see him go, I think sending Lackey with Theo isn't a good enough deal. I hope Theo is for Castro or we sign him longterm. Like I said a good GM is hard to find.
***UPDATE***
"WEEI's John Dennis reported Wednesday morning that Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein has agreed with the Cubs on a five-year deal worth more than $15 million. According to Dennis' sources, the Red Sox granted the Cubs permission to talk with Epstein late last week. The deal is expected to be finalized by the end of this week, following negotiations for compensation with the Red Sox, who have Epstein under contract for one more season. The Cubs apparently have not settled on a title for Epstein (WEEI)."
As the report says we don't have word on compensation, but this doesn't shock me at all. I (BMack) had a feeling he was gone the second the owners came on WEEI and said that there is "a time limit" on how long someone can be a GM in Boston. That was a dead giveaway that something was up. I am not the biggest Theo guy, but losing the manager and GM of the teams that got you 2 World Series rings is a hell of a loss. I am jut holding out hope the Red Sox get something out of this, whether it be a player, or the Cubs taking some of these bad contracts.
"A Chicago Cubs fan is reporting Theo Epstein, who may or may not have permission from the Boston Red Sox to talk to the Cubs about a new job, was in Cubs Nation on Saturday. "It was Theo all right," Noah Pinzur, a lifelong Cubs fan, told Paul Sullivan of the Chicago Tribune. "I'm 99.9 percent sure (Masslive.com)."
Not exactly the most reliable thing I have heard, but I don't doubt it. There has been no news about this at all on the Boston side, and that kind of makes me think something is going on. I have said from the beginning I think Theo will end up leaving. I have nothing to really back it up, but it's the way I have felt from the beginning.
The Red Sox really need this to be over. I can't see how they are going to move on to their next manager until they solve this Theo thing. It just seems like whoever the GM is probably should pick the manager. Hopefully we will have more reliable reports at sometime this week.
Quick conspiracy theory... I think the Red Sox aren't saying he is gone, because Selig hates when people make big news during the playoffs.
DP alluded to this earlier, and I was kind of shocked since DP is the biggest Francona hater of all time, but even he had to admit that the owners kind of handled this Francona departure poorly. I mean why did it take this long to come out and talk about what happened, and at least give the guy some credit for all the work he had put in? I mean the guy put in 8 years, and although he may have lost the clubhouse over the last 2 years the Red Sox did enjoy their best success they have had since the early 1900's during his time here. I am a huge Francona supporter, but I had to admit to myself that after hearing everything that had happened that it was best for the Red Sox and Francona to probably move on. That being said, there is classy ways to do it, and I think they let Francona take the bullet by himself.
Anyways, there did finally come out and talk today on WEEI (a little bit anyways). Here are some main points I found interesting from the interview...
"He did a fantastic job for us over the years," Lucchino added. "He was contemplating his ninth year in this pressure cooker that is Boston. Different teams require different skill sets and different talents. I think he made a self-assessment, with which we concurred. To that extent, it was mutual and the phrase mutual does fit. It was still a sad occasion. There was no joy that day."
"We went through challenge after challenge, various reasons for the breakdown. We talked to Tito about whether he was ready for this, given all the challenges he enumerated," said Lucchino. "He made clear to us that he wasn’t. What were his words. Something like, ‘You need a new voice down there. I’m not your man for next year. I think my time here is up.’ In some ways, he took that position. That is a very determinative factor when your manager feels spent and feels like there needs to be a change.
Here are of the rest that I found interesting.
- They would not discuss the Cubs request to talk to Theo, but it was damn obvious that they had since they wouldn't deny it. They also said that anytime that anyone asks to talk to someone that they almost always grant it as long as it's a promotion.
- They are not interviewing any managers yet, but Theo is actively involved, but it was interesting from them to keep pointing out that Ben Cherington is also very involved. May be of them getting people ready for him taking over. Kept repeating that "no one person makes these big decisions" (Adrian Gonzalez, Crawford).
- "Theo will not be the GM forever".
- "Younger players have a much bigger impact now then they ever did". Could mean the Red Sox will look to their minor leagues, more then going out and trying to make a splash in free agency, but also admitted they will not back off free agent signings just because they sucked at it recently."
So, overall as much as they tried to put out the fire of Theo leaving, it certainly sounds like it is a very real possibility, and I would even go as far as to say it kind of sounded like they were trying to soften the blow a little bit. Maybe I am wrong, but that's what I took from it.
This is certainly going to be a very interesting offseason, but this Theo crap needs to end before the end of the World Series. Either way it goes, you can't hire a manager if you don't know who you're GM is going to be (in my opinion). I have come to the conclusion that I want Theo here, unless the Cubs are willing to give some worthwhile back (taking Lackey's contract, or a player that can come in and start right away), or if Theo won't sign an extension with the Red Sox then I would just rather have him leave now. I would at that point rather just start fresh across the board, then patch together one more year. Otherwise, I think the Red Sox should extend him.
It has been rumored for a long time now, but apparently the Cubs have asked the Red Sox to talk to Theo Epstein. Now comes a very big decision for the Red Sox.
I have written before that I do blame Theo for a lot of the Red Sox problems this year, and even more then that the problems we will be having for the next 3-4 years (Lackey, Crawford, ect), but DP did bring up some good points, and Theo has brought us some winners as well.
So, what's my verdict in whether or not the Red Sox should let him talk to the Cubs? This is going to sound like a cop out, but it depends. It really depends on what the Red Sox get in return.
Let's say for a second that the Cubs get him, and they also take Lackey's salary. Would you do it then? I think I would. They have to get that guy out of the clubhouse, and it seems like the Red Sox have faith that Ben Cherington is going to be the next guy in line for the GM job.
Would the Cubs do that? They might just be desperate enough to do it, and they might also believe that Lackey could bounce back if he went to the NL. If the Red Sox got rid of that salary, along with Drews salary coming off the books that could really make the Red Sox players again this offseason. I know DP doesn't like him, but wouldn't CJ Wilson look a hell of a lot better in this rotation?
The other option is to sign Theo right now to an extension. There is no point of him picking our next manager if he is only going to be the GM for one more year. If they let him talk to the Cubs, he is going to leave. I really don't see him coming back if he goes there for any kind of talk.
This decision needs to be made now, because the Red Sox, either way they decide to play this, have a lot of work to do this offseason.
Although he wasn't fired, and although it seemed to be a mutual breakup, the Red Sox' owners were not supporting Francona. Even if Francona wanted to work in such an environment, I doubt the Sox were going to pickup his option. There have already been reports that the ownership decided 2 weeks ago to cut him lose. This seems like a mutual breakup but it's not. Imagine if your girlfriend said "I'm not attracted to you and want to sleep with other men." You probably wouldn't want to see her anymore, but it wouldn't be a mutual breakup.
The Red Sox' collapse was not Terry Francona's fault. At least not nearly as much as the players' fault. No manager, no matter how insightful, inspiring, or ingenious, could get Erik Bedard to be anything but Erik Bedard. No manager could coax a shred of decency from John Lackey.
A very vocal and very stupid minority in Red Sox Nation are blaming Francona for lack of control in the clubhouse. The leaked incident about starting pitchers drinking during games is being used as People's Exhibit A against Francona, who has always been a player's manager.
It's funny how this vocal minority aren't blaming the grown men who acted like this. Francona isn't a disciplinarian, but he's not supposed to be a babysitter. During a game, is he supposed to do surprise inspections of the clubhouse? Like some college dorm RA, looking for booze.
I think we can guess who the problems were in this clubhouse. John Lackey is quite clearly a scumbag. He sounds like he's drunk all the time. He also pitches like he's drunk all the time.
Erik Bedard doesn't strike me as a good character. Some players, when they get a chance to play for a contender in a pennant race, step up their performance. Bedard seemed to lazily cruise.
JD Drew, at the very least, is not a positive influence.
Josh Beckett is a fraud. He's a fake Texas Tough Guy. He's a wannabe Stone Cold Steve Austin that gets sidelined by blisters and the slightest of illnesses. I can't say he was a clubhouse problem, but he doesn't seem to be much of a leader.
Then there's the excuse makers. Every time this team struggled, there were excuses. Injuries. The lack of a DH in interleague play. God. Et cetera.
This clubhouse was full of babies and jerks. And while they were winning, these character flaws were hidden. They were exposed when the losing started. It's the chicken and the egg, really. Does poor chemistry cause losing, or does losing cause poor chemistry. One thing I know from the past is that good chemistry prevents losing from lasting too long (See: 2004 ALCS).
Blaming Francona for how adults act is a bit silly. He's not a schoolteacher or a babysitter. He's a baseball manager. And he is who he is. He's not going to change his style because the players under his charge are misbehaving.
But even though it's not his fault that the players didn't respect him, when the situation deteriorates like it did in September, it's time to change managers. If employees don't respect their supervisor, even if it's not the supervisor's fault, you have to change supervisors.
This team is poorly assembled, though. Do Bill James and his mathmagicians take character (or lack of) into consideration when they recommend a player to Theo? I feel like Francona was a teacher given a classroom of drug addicts, troublemakers, and morons. Then he was fired because they acted like drug addicts, troublemakers, and morons.
The question now is who replaces Francona? Who replaces a man who averaged 93 wins in his 8 seasons here? Who replaces a 2 time World Series winner? Who replaces a guy who handled players like Manny Ramirez and Kevin Youkilis while simultaneously handling the Boston Sports Media and did so while never throwing anyone under the bus? What kind of man can juggle that well?
The Nation wants discipline. But Earl Weaver is not walking through that door.
Sox fans are clamoring for Joe Maddon. That'd be fine with me. It couldn't hurt Crawford's performance. But that guy is hardly Bill Parcells. He's not as laid back as Tito, but he's not a whip-cracker either. And why would he want to leave Tampa Bay? Why would he want to leave a contender that has great young pitching for a semi-contender that has awful veteran pitchers? Why would he want to leave a clubhouse full of character for a den of drinking and excuses.
To be honest, I don't think changing the managerial situation will turn this team around. Signing a top starting pitcher (CJ Wilson would be nice), giving Lackey his outright release (it's a better investment to pay him $15 million to not pitch here), getting Buchholz and Youkilis back, adding a reliable set-up man to the bullpen. These are the things that will bring October baseball back to Boston.
All you Francona ball washers out there are turning your anger towards Theo after the collapse and saying it is equally his fault. It's not, Theo gets players and that's where it ends. He doesn't let them get fat and drink in the locker room, he doesn't mismanage a bullpen, he doesn't leave our dead arm starters out there too long, he doesn't mismanage the line up, and he doesn't directly effect the game. Francona did. Theo has made some mistakes in John Lackey, Brad Penny, and John Smoltz and Bobby Jenks. JD Drew signing was fine in my eyes and I'll leave the Crawford alone for now.
If Theo does leave to the Cubs that would absolutely kill the Red Sox, I don't get why John Henry is letting him interview because he will really effect the team. The Yankees thought about getting rid of Cashman and he would be the only acceptable guy to replace Theo is they do infact let him go. Theo has done a lot right in Boston, including getting our home grown talent up and making some awesome trades that directly got us to the World Series (Nomar and Beckett/Lowell).
Leave Theo alone, stop projecting your bitterness of Francona on him. Shut up!
Terry Francona, who was the first Red Sox manager to win multiple World Series titles with the team since Bill Carrigan (1915 and 1916), will no longer be managing the Sox.
I'm not sure if this isn't a semi-mutual decision. Francona didn't seem pleased with the team he was given, nor with Theo Epstein, and I wouldn't be shocked if he told the Sox owners that he didn't want to be back, and at the same time management said to him that they didn't want him back.
We'll undoubtedly get some leaks in the Sox controlled media about a lack of discipline in the Sox clubhouse. Francona has a reputation for leniency, for being a "player's manager." To me, that's what allowed the Sox to be relaxed in the 2004 and 2007 ALCS. But those teams also had more veteran leadership to keep things in line.
They also had better pitching on those teams, which may have helped them win. I know that's a crazy idea, that good pitching wins games.
Quite frankly, I don't think that baseball managers have much of an effect on the game. It's not like football coaches who call the plays, or hockey and basketball coaches who constantly shift people in and out of the game. A baseball manager is relatively uninvolved in the winning and losing of a team.
That's why I feel this is unfair to Francona. He can't make John Lackey a better pitcher. He can't make JD Drew a tough, gutsy player. And he also doesn't have any power to punish these guys for not performing. What's he supposed to threaten JD Drew with? Benching him? "Either get out and play or I'm not going to let you play."
This team was not well assembled. And that's Theo Epstein's fault. John Lackey, Carl Crawford, and JD Drew commanded over $44.5 million in salary this season. What did they contribute? If I'm John Henry, and I've invested over $160 million (plus the luxury tax) into this team, I want to hold Theo accountable for how he's spent it. "What are you doing with my money?"
Sox fans want a manager that will be more of a disciplinarian. Do you think that will work in a clubhouse full of overpaid bums and underpaid superstars? Guys like Pedroia and Youkilis will fall in line, but those two are disciplined on their own, even without a manager. Sox fans are clamoring for a change in personalities. And I have a feeling that if Sox brass listen to them and hire some guy who will fine players for not shaving their sideburns, this team will suffer not prosper.
I understand the move, but if the Sox really want to turn the proverbial ship around, they can't just fire the ship's captain. They have to get rid of the guy who put the lazy crew together. In terms of results on the field, the Red Sox have let go of the best manager they've ever had.
If they are going to fire Francona, which whatever after a collapse like that I guess I have to accept, I think Theo should go too. This roster is fucked up, and it's not like the problems are just going to go away. Theo really has made some bad moves. We are just getting through the JD Drew era, which was a bunch of money. Now we are just entering the Crawford, and Lackey era, which is even more money with little results. You add that to the long list of bone head moves (Jenks, Gagne, Cameron) and I think it's time to move on.
Also, I think the White Sox should grab Francona. After having to battle wars with Guillen all the time Francona would be a great change of pace, and could be just what the clubhouse needs.
